In this conversation, Jim, Sander, and their guest, Yuval, discuss various topics, including SAFe, lean portfolio management, and OKRs. They explore the misconceptions and polarizing nature of SAFe, the difference between a traditional PMO and a lean portfolio, and the challenges of managing different ways of working within a global organization. They also delve into the concept of OKRs, the importance of setting realistic goals, and the potential pitfalls of tying incentives to OKRs. The conversation concludes with a discussion on metrics and the value of thinking in bets.